Q: I am stumped.
I m putting together a new system for a friend and have now burned three Athlon 1600 + (1400Mhz) CPU. All three times the system ran OK for between 20 seconds and 2 hours, then black. I know it? S of the CPU, because the fans run at startup, but no post and a CPU from another machine (Athlon 2000 +) will heatsink and fan post.
Troubleshooting
The (PAL6035) is square down, and yes, I used heatsink compound sparingly. I can tell the good from the square pattern is created in the paste when I remove it. This fan and heatsink worked fine for one year at a 1.33 Ghz.
The mobo shorting is not the case everywhere. Ive quadruple-checked
In two of the burn-outs, nothing was connected, but the video card and memory (in 2 hours walk, everything was connected and Windows XP is installed)
Ive tried a new power supply (300W Sparkle) after 1 out
Ive tried burning a new mobo after the second burn-out (one was a Gigabyte GA-7ZXE, 2d K7E an MSI Turbo 2, through both boards KT133a) 0.
I have a fast-clamping overvoltage tried after the second out.
Third fire burnout still happened, and this time after about 20 seconds.
Any ony ideas about what could be making this would be appreciated.
Best Answer: hi mate
building a pc isnt that hard…the idea of creating a pc scares alot of people however theres no reason for even the most novice of pc users to be able to build a pc,so lets get to it !
a pc is made up of around 7 main components…theres the cpu(processor) , motherboard , memory, hard drive , optical drive, power supply (psu) and case…and depending on what type of pc you are building you may also want to buy a graphics card which is essential if you are going to be gaming
however heres my quick guide to building a pc……….
1) first you need to find a flat surface and then place your case horizontally and then take your hard drive,optical drive and power supply….then using a crosshead screwdriver attach your power supply with the cables furthest away from you and then take you hard drive and attach in a spare hard drive bay..( some hard drives use runners ,if this the case attach the drive runners and slide into the bay
…then the same applies to the dvdrw optical drive…these also use runners and if this is the case attach them and slide into the 5.25" bay
2) now take your motherboard and before fitting this you need to place it on a flat surface and fit the processor(cpu)….this shouldnt be too hard however make sure you buy the correct motherboard for the cpu..for example a socket lga775 motherboard uses intel socket lga775 processors however you should also check the motherboards website and look at the "cpu compatibility list"….then once you have fitted the cpu you then have to attach the heatsink/fan assembely…however when you buy a retail cpu package it comes with a compatible heatsink and fan
3) next you should insert the memory into the dimm slots…this is quite easy and the memory will only go in one way so dont force it,,,,however if you are using a single memory module insert this in the slot marked "dimm 1"
4) now take the sata cables/ide cables and connect to the hard drive and optical drive…then connect to the appropriate connector on the motherboard…in the case of ide based drives make sure you set the drive to "master" if you are using just one.however if you are using two ide hard drives then set one to master and the other to slave….and the same applies to the optical drives so if you want a dvdrw drive for burning and a dvd-rom drive for when doing direct copying you should set the dvdrw drive to "master" and the dvd rom to "slave"
note : sata hard and optical drives use channels and these will be automatically configured,they dont need setting like ide drives…this makes them a better option when building pc,s
5)next you should attach your graphic card,this depends on which type of graphic bus(slot) you have,this will be either pci-express or agp…and you should insert the card slowly into the appropriate slot..and in agp slots theres a clip that needs closing which will hold your agp card in place…then using a small crosshead screw attach the graphic card to the case
6) all motherboards have onboard audio however some people insist on better sound so a soundcard should be fitted….and these can dramatically improve your pc,s audio…and these are inserted into either pci(32bit) slots or the small pci-express x1 slots (depending on card )
7) now with all the components fitted you should atttach the appropriate power connector to the component…bare in mind a decent graphic card will use a 6pin or 8pin pci-express connector…and sata hard and optical drives need sata power connectors,,so remember this when purchasing the power supply
with all this done you then should add a few case fans to keep the pc cool when under load….and i would recommend one at the front of the case drawing air in and one at the back drawing the warmed air out and thats it…obviously theres more indepth information when building a pc however when you buy the motherboard you will get a manual which will show you how to connect all the hardware to the motherboard,it will also show you how to connect the case cables (power on..reset and hed led ) to the motherboard ….
it sounds quite daunting however take your time and follow the guides and instructions and you will be fine…and the great thing is when you have built your first pc..you will be building another within six months…i promise you !
so there you have it…i dont beleive in giving links as these can be as confusing as ever,,i allways answer in easy to understand terminology….
i hope this has helped…however if you require any assistance or you get stuck during the pc build let me know and i will see what i can do
good luck mate !
Re:One CPU (4) per post (4)- a new record!;)
GL
Re:Update:
I replaced the cpu (4th one . . .) and installed it with the new heatsink. As I mentioned, this one did not use clip tension to tighten, but instead an adjusting knob on top. The PC has now run fine for several days, and has been delivered to the happy end-user. My guess is that I must have cracked the first 3 cpus during install. Live and learn.
Thanks for the feedback.
Re:Good luck. Hope it all works out.
Re:Thanks for all of the feedback.
Although nothing seems particularly obvious at this point, it seems the most likely explanation is that, despite my best efforts and the fact that I've never had this happen before, I've managed to damage all 3 cpus during installation.
I've ordered a fourth cpu (no, I didnt rma), and this time a new h/s as well. I got a Globalwin TAK68, because it uses an adjusting knob to tighten the clips, rather than clip tension. Seems like a more idiot-freindly install, which may be what I need…
I'll post if it works.
Re:First off, you seem to have really "done your homework" in trying to remedy this. Second, I will just comment on a couple of points. You said, " did boot with the mobo outside the case for the 1st cpu. Everything was fine. It was also fine inside the case for about a half hour when all locked up and went black "
Since that time the MB(s) have been inside the case I presume, except AFTER they "burned out" or whatever went wrong. You then pulled the MB out and tested to see if they would run. Maybe the damage was already done. It would seem that there could be a short between the MB and the case. I know you said you "quadruple-checked" but the reality is that it still remains a viable theory. Possible yone of the standoffs is not making contact exactly where it should or a standoff is in the wrong place, or a screw head is larger than the insulated area around the install hole, etc (to mean all the other various assorted things that can short a MB). Just an idea, if I read that correctly. Just what you need to hear, but one way to find out is get another CPU and run it outside the case for a few hours at least to see what happens. Of course, NewEgg and MWave are going to get tired of RMA'ing CPU's too. J/K
Another minor point (which would not cause the failures you spoke of) that I would mention is that you said, " I install the h/s by first putting a very thin layer of h/s compound on both the h/s and cpu" Another possible communication error but you should only put a very thin layer of the compound on the CPU die, then you should take a small amount of compound and rub it onto the bottom of the HS (with a lint free cloth, not your finger) and then gently wipe it off. This is done on the HS only to fill in any microscopic imperfections or scratches in the surface. You should not leave a "layer", thin or not, on the bottom of the HS; it should be wiped off. If not, then that would essentialy mean that there would be two layers of compound between the HS and the CPU die. A definate "No-no". However, as I said, this would not cause the failures, only a bit more heat would be present.
As to the physical condition of the CPU's, if you have a good magnifying glass you can take a close look to see if there are any fine cracks in the CPU. Sometimes they can be literally a "hairline" crack that is almost invisible. Yes, they might work for a brief period it that was the case. You should also look closely at the area where the die is "connected" to the ceramic part of the CPU. A "squeezing" fracture could occur there.
As to being "burned", perhaps that should be further defined. If they are in fact burned due to excess heat, you may well be able to see an "off color" in the die. Hard to explain unless you've seen it but there would be a difference in color from a normal cpu. But, if they were "shorted" you might not see anything out of the ordinary in most cases.
Re:Thanks for the feedback. Some more info in response to the issues raised above:
1. I concluded the cpus are burnt out because a) power up spins the fans and gives no POST, b) a cpu from a different machine does boot c) the burnt cpus won?t POST in a different, working machine.
2. I did boot with the mobo outside the case for the 1st cpu. Everything was fine. It was also fine inside the case for about a half hour when all locked up and went black during Windows install. None of the cpus will work outside the case after having gone black, nor will they work in a different and working system.
3. The ZIFF socket lever went down easily, felt fine.
4. It is of course conceivable that the h/s was not properly installed, though I have built at least 5 Socket-A Athlon systems and have never had this problem. I even used this very same heatsink on another board for about a year (it?s a hefty PAL-6035 copper insert h/s that I used to use for overclocking). The only notable thing is that the clip for this h/s seems VERY stiff and it takes an amount of force to get it in place that makes me uncomfortable. It does get in place though, and remember that 2 of the cpus worked for a little while before burning. I install the h/s by first putting a very thin layer of h/s compound on both the h/s and cpu, then hooking the off-side of the clip over the retainers on the socket, then squaring the h/s over the four pads, then, while placing pressure on the offside of he h/s, I use a screwdriver to hook the clip over the near side of the cpu. Yes, the h/s is oriented so that the indentations match the raised edge of the socket and the lever side of the socket.
5. I have not tested the Power supply, though this is the second new power supply I?ve tried. I bought the Sparkle after the 1st cpu went, since that seemed the most likely explanation at the time.
6. I have fans in the case, but the only fan connected (other than for the cpu that took a couple of hours to burn) was the cpu fan.
7. The case was always open. Can?t imagine ambient temp could be an issue, and certainly not for the one that burned in 20 seconds.
8. The only common denominators include: case (a new in-win 500a); ram (2 sticks of 128mb PC133 SDRAM that ran fine on another machine for a year); video card (an old TNT1); and monitor. Even the CD-ROM and floppy were not hooked up yet for the 20 second burnout. Eliminating common denominators has been my approach, hence the new cpus, new mobo, and new power supply.
9. fsb has been jumpered to both 100MHz and 133Mhz settings in first two burnouts, only time for 133 in last one. In all 3 burnouts, the bios correctly recognized the cpu as 1600+ @1400MHz.
10. Different vendor for the cpus (2 from newegg, one from M-Wave).
11. For the cpu that lasted 2 hours, I was able to run a bios update (on the GA-7ZXE). Cpu still burnt out about an hour later.
Questions:
If I cracked (all 3) cpus, would I be able to see the crack? Nothing shows, they all look fine physically. Any reasonable chance they could run for awhile (as 2 of them did) before failing?
If not cracked, it also seems to me that heat must be the issue. The cpus behave just like overheated cpus, but I run out of ideas as to why that could be happening. I?m on the verge of buying a Dell (just kidding).
I appreciate the time taken to respond. Any ideas or theories are appreciated.
Re:I think you have to start looking for the common denominator.
What was it that you used on ALL the builds?
Ram? Video? Case?
Are they all OEM CPU's? From the same vendor?
I think it is doubtful that it is caused by the PSU. The even the cheapest Sparkle is more than adequate.
What settings are you using to configure the FSB.
Was it the same on ALL 3 builds?
Even with a clamping surge protector, I would try another powering from another location.
Or it can be just a BAD run of CPU's. Is the vendor warranting them?
Just a side note.
Based on the Website Spec's and manual, both the gigabyte GA-7ZXE, 2d an MSI K7E turbo 2
are shown to go to AMD Athlon 1.5 ghz + (which more than likely requires a BIOS update to support beyond 1.5)
Re:You didn't tell us anything about how to place the fan and heatsink. Are you sure you did it correctly? The one flaw of AMD processor is that they leave their core open unlike P4's where Intel included a metal shield on top that protects the core and aids a little in cooling.
Are you sure you didn't crack it? (Yes, all 3x) You should know this but as a reminder, when you put your heatsink on top of your processor, use the SLIGHTEST angle possible because you do not want to have a lot of pressure on one side of the processor.
If it wasn't that, I suggest you experience with booting up the computer with the case open and a house fan on the side blowing inside the computer case. Obviously, to me, it sounds like a heat problem. Maybe the heatsink/fan isn't recommended for the AMD processor you have. But first, I suggest trying with the house fan. If all is successful, then I would say your problem was a heat issue and that you need more fans and a better heatsink. Good Luck.
Re:The mobo is not shorting anywhere on the case. I've quadruple-checkedJust to get the discussion started, have you tried booting with the board outside of the case? Even though you "quadruple-checked" that (booting outside the case) would be a more definative test/result. The other (obvious) things I would check would be the CPU installation. Did the lever go down easily and completely to a locking position? Have you tested the PS yet, whether on another system or by using an ATX PS testor. Antec makes one that is sold at many stores for under $14.00. The only other (longshot) idea would be if you have any high capacity fans connected to the MB. Also, when you say "burned out", what exactly do you mean? Can you describe the condition of the CPU and what made you conclude that they were burned out?
Anyway, that's a starting point. Good Luck!
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