Re:Most high-end unix boxes do that, I know the 16 CPU HP-UX boxes we got (for free for development heh) have configuration options for that. I'm not sure about Digital/Compaq, we have a couple of GS160s but I havn't touched them.
Ya but the advantage to the IBM solutions is that you have vurtially unlimited scalability if you decide to let IBM deal with all the hardware. If you want more power you just make a phone call and they give you more power. If you found out you needed a lot less then you thought then you just call them and tell them to cut back. Flexability is the key, the ability to double the hardware potential of your servers with a simple phone call is pretty neat. The main disadvantage is of course with IBM dealing with all the hardware it's all located off site, so you have limits on what it is usefull with due to high speed bandwidth limitations with WANS. If that is a issue then you can get your own mainframe, but that is expensive option, but nice to have!
Re:The knee jerk reaction is that you can only get away with selling disabled hardware/software is due to either ignorance from the person, or a severe lack of real compitition.
Not necessarily. A salesman could be trying to sell the 16 CPU box but offer to give you a deal if you get the 16 CPU capable box all equipped but only a license for 8 CPUs, if you later decide you need the other 8 CPUs you only need call them to activate them.
now with stuff like the g4 4200 eating into the sales of 4600 due to overclockers they have to make completely different cards to suit different markets.
That's true, if the only thing seperating two models of anything is something alterable like clockrate it's not going to work. But the different markets could be hit with different features like TV-out, that can't be changed via software.
Like most things brand plays into the price quite a bit, you don't buy a lexus because it's higher quality you buy it because it's a lexus.
Why doesn't nvidia just make it illigal to use non-nvidia drivers with it's vid card, or AMD may it illigal to fill in jumpers with pencil lead?
Even if they did, how would they know you did it?
What about IBM's new linux/mainframe scheme? Each IBM mainframe operating system has it's resources (cpu power, memory etc etc) evenly distibuted between different "partitions". Now with there VM OS they can run a individual OS's in each partition. IBM designed this originally for backward compatability, at work we run a mainframe with a OS/390 operating system, but inside that OS we run a DOS/370 OS to run the ancient hardware (10-20 year old tape drives and the JCL programming language).
Most high-end unix boxes do that, I know the 16 CPU HP-UX boxes we got (for free for development heh) have configuration options for that. I'm not sure about Digital/Compaq, we have a couple of GS160s but I havn't touched them.
Re:That's kinda interesting. The knee jerk reaction is that you can only get away with selling disabled hardware/software is due to either ignorance from the person, or a severe lack of real compitition.
You look at video cards, use to be they would sell the same vid cards just with a couple jumpers moved for different performance options, then they had to disable it on the hardware level, but then people determined workarounds. now with stuff like the g4 4200 eating into the sales of 4600 due to overclockers they have to make completely different cards to suit different markets.
Or look at cars, you have stuff like the toyota landcruser and the lexus suv's, or the chevy suburban and the lincon navigator. The luxury options are exactly the same cars mechanicly-wise as the the upgraded versions. The motors are the same, the frame the same, same trannies etc etc. Realy it's just different trim levels, you know different cosmetic plastic and different consoles and leather seats, and a 10,0000-30,000 price difference. Pretty sad. For the price difference you take a suburban to a hotrodder and have a better quality interior, power, efficancy, sound, looks, etc then any navigator.
Hardware-wise you can do what ever you want to it. you can overlock it, mod it, improve it etc etc. But for some reason if you were to right a program to unlock window's capabilities you will go to jail. go figure. Why doesn't nvidia just make it illigal to use non-nvidia drivers with it's vid card, or AMD may it illigal to fill in jumpers with pencil lead?
But how about this:
What about IBM's new linux/mainframe scheme? Each IBM mainframe operating system has it's resources (cpu power, memory etc etc) evenly distibuted between different "partitions". Now with there VM OS they can run a individual OS's in each partition. IBM designed this originally for backward compatability, at work we run a mainframe with a OS/390 operating system, but inside that OS we run a DOS/370 OS to run the ancient hardware (10-20 year old tape drives and the JCL programming language).
Now you can call up IBM and ask them to run a linux server in one of their mainframes. You pay up front based on your needs. They have different pricing scemes similar to dedicated internet lines. You can pay more for more cpu/memory power for peak time usage, burst usage or a flat line max usage. If you want more, IBM will just add another partition's resources to your Linux server for increase in your monthly rate. Or you can devide up the resources you have between different Linux servers.. They are under your control, you can do what you want with them. Each clients OS is completely isolated from one another.
Or you can buy your own mainframe and run as many servers from one computer as you need. You can switch em back and forth. And if you have any hardware issues, you will have a contract with IBM for upkeep. People do this if they need the max proccessing power, but they can have a simple mail server or whatnot hiding of in the corner of a partition. what ever you want. A nice way to replace a entire lan of failure prone PC-hardware. not cheap though…
Re:Don't know if they still do, but a few years ago, Sun was selling their big Enterprise boxes fully populated with RAM and processors. We had a couple. 64 processors and 64 gigs of RAM just sitting there but you only get to use what you pay for. The selling point I guess was that you can upgrade your cpu/ram instantly by a simple phone call. Kind of annoying that the power was sitting there waiting for you but you couldn't get to it.
Re:This is the basic business principle of maximizing profits. If you only offer one version that offers all the options, many people will not want to pay for it and therefore won't buy. This equals lost revenues.
However, in order to create that full boat version the manufacturing company has already paid for all of your programming and R&D. These are "sunk" costs i.e. you can never get that money back.
Therefore you are best off getting as much money for the product that you can so you offer the expensive version to the people that need the options and are willing to pay for it and lesser versions to people who are only willing to buy at a lower price. Collecting a lower price for the product is better than getting nothing from someone that is unwilling to pay a higher price at this point because the cost of creating one more unit, basically just printing one more CD, is almost nothing at this point.
That is how you legally get away with charging different consumers different prices for almost the same product.
Re:Its all depend on how you look at things. Most business owner don't have time to look at the geek stuff therefore they put their money on the sale pitch, while their IT guys grumbling because most of their suggestions fall to deaf ears.
A while back MS was trying say that they are making licensing easier to understand by introducing the user rental fee of their service, and now they are cluttering it up with the multi tiers scheme. It is in MS best interest to make as much money for their stockholders as possible therefore they have to find ingenious way to get money from the tightfisted business owners. However, MS is not alone in this quest because Sun, IBM, Oracle and the rest of the IT industry licensing scheme are just as convoluted and seemed to be outright scalping.
What business have to do is to look hard at what they are doing & justification of the use of computers.
Has computer making their life easier?
Has computer better the management of businesses?
Has it create more money to justify the cost against having it?
Can computer improve on their operation, and hold the software developers accountable for their claim what the software can do instead of just write it of as a bug. Should business be guarantee that the man hours lost of operation be back charge against the developers. Business should voice of what they need such as bug fixes instead of the new flashy buggy addons that rarely use and is the tools that sales man use to drive sales. The company that I work for & I are tired of this upgrade game that why we are looking at Opensource for away out, because it let us find ways to fix the bugs & optimizes the apps to our needs.
Please give me some suggestions as to what to as MS, because I will be at their oneday business sales pitch next month. It is pertain to Enterprise business portal, Greatplains dynamics, Office and of course SQL/Win2003.
Re:Cars were never a good analogy.
Basically you're paying for a version of Windows compiled with a bunch of different #defines.
Re:Originally posted by: guy
I think the idea is that you buy a 2 door car if you expect to only have 1 extra passenger, a 4 door car if you expect to have 2-3 more or a minivan if you want more, although wtih cars there's no upgrade path (i.e. can't really add length and seats) and it just happens that it's more common for the 2 door cars to be more expensive than the minivans.
Yea, sort of, but in this case (if I'm understanding correctly), it's like buying a minivan that seats 8 (as if such a thing ever existed; I thought minivans traditionally have had 7 seating positions), but only being allowed to use the front two seats unless you pay a lot more.
Re:I think the idea is that you buy a 2 door car if you expect to only have 1 extra passenger, a 4 door car if you expect to have 2-3 more or a minivan if you want more, although wtih cars there's no upgrade path (i.e. can't really add length and seats) and it just happens that it's more common for the 2 door cars to be more expensive than the minivans.
Re:What I've never understood is client access licenses. As I understand it, you have to pay more to allow more people to connect to your server. No change in the actual system. That's like buying a car, and having to pay extra if you want to let people ride in the back seat. Your not buying the back seat – just paying more to be allowed to use the back seat you already have. I have no idea why people put up with that kind of crap.
Re:I hope for Windows you hire competent techs/admins just like you would for Linux. There's no reason to hire programmers unless you need a new app done or one customized heavily, most unix guys can shell/perl/etc script enough to 'fix' whatever needs fixed and a lot of the know some C too.
What happens when you only bought Win2K Server but now you want to put 8G of memory in the box for some reason? Especially with Hammer being released that 8G would be a lot more usefull since the 4G per-process limitation of 32-bit chips is gone.
IME I'd say TCO of Linux is cheaper than Windows, but my experience is fairly limited. I know I can install, tinker, generally f' with things on a Linux box and not cause any harm which is alot riskier on Windows and usually requires a lot of reboots.
In general the TCO will be lower for whichever system you know better, because you're the one running it.
Re:Ya, but it's going to cost you one way or the other. In linux you hire programmers and techs to make the OS do what you want, the better programmers and techs you get combined with proper planning and a good business model will make you more competative. Remember you only have to give it away if you sell it, you can mod it and not show the code to anyone if you want, then it's kinda up to the discression of the programmers to share (not exactly sure about that, but usually it's to a person's advantage to have freinds active developement areas and to share code, free technical support and consulting is, well, free$)…
But is the cost of it worth it compared to Windows? I mean it's gonna cost you one way or another. Is the price of being locked in and being identical in software/hardware efficency to all your competetors (not to mention being beholdent to the whims of MS) a worthly price to pay for standardization and large if costly technical base?
Or is one OS just that much better then the other that costs just don't enter into it, the over all TCO is what realy matters? (is TCO with Unix/Linux/IBM/MS better thru your experiance)
I guess I am just fishing for rationalizetions one way or the other.
Re:Bleh.
They can price it any way they want, why lock yourself into something that you have no control over?
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