its too stupid that I have to pay to try their beta xp too, maybe im wrong and dont have, can someone correct me?

Companies like Microsoft, Adobe, etc.. THRIVE off piracy. [/i] >>

There are a couple of flaws in you analysis.

[/i] >>

x software costs $500+[/i] >>

Retail price, few people pay retail. Most store purchases would run
from 40-60% or full retail due to coupons, rebates, and OEM bundles.

Home users spend more time getting the next product (for bragging rights) than
actually using product x.

Home users proficiency is limited to what little he does with the app at home.
Experience does not match up against actual workspace, where solutions using
applications like product x have to be applied to specific projects along
specific guidelines.

Company A pays more in backtraining or thru loss of productivity getting supposedly
proficient users up to speed. Additional revenue is lost in the third party training
market.

Software makers make no additional profit from Company A because the companies are
getting discount breaks for buying product x on bulk orders in the first place.

Let me break it down to you how their business model works.

x software costs $500+

Home users won't buy that. Some will, but it's insignificant. Home users pirate software left and right. They think it works good, and they brag about getting $500 for nothing. Plus since it's 500 bucks it MUST be good.

Home users become VERY proficient in x software.

Company A, realizing this, saves money on training by just getting software x and their users automatically know how to use it.

Company A can't pirate, because they have deep pockets and will get their arses sued off. Maker of software X knows this, sells tens, hundreds, thousands of copies of X at 500 bucks a crack to company A. THey make a LOT of money because they have to legally buy it.

The cycle goes on and on. Without piracy MS would have been nothing. They know this. Companies will easily pay 500 bucks for an office package, the home user won't, and it's nothing new.

I would consider taking you more seriously if you had criticized my statements rather than attacking my character.

You accuse me of being a pain in the ass, of pirating software, of not knowing anything about computers. This is not a very good way to debate with someone you haven't even met. You have no idea what my expertise is, you have no idea what I do or do not do. For you to claim otherwise is arrogant and pretentious.

In the thread about the database, I pointed out relevant law without making moral judgments. In other threads, I made what I believe are reasonable analyses of Microsoft's digital music and pricing strategies. If you believe my comments are somehow misled, by all means point out how and why. I would be interested in intelligent rebuttals. But you won't get any respect from me if all you can do is call me names.

This is a naive thing to believe. Microsoft is intentionally overpricing Office XP and Win XP to encourage piracy. With the so-called activation (and doubtlessly other methods alongside it that they are not disclosing) they will pretend to have "accurate" numbers indicating the extent of widescale piracy.

Using this so-called "data" they will lobby lawmakers to put in place very harsh punishments for software piracy and reverse engineering, enact laws that severely limit or outright abolish fair use, legalize EULA's, etc, etc.

Microsoft knows that they are becoming less and less relevant in a world where Open Source software performs just as well as overpriced, closed source software. They cannot compete on technology. They cannot compete on price. Therefore, they are setting up the stage for a chain of events which they hope will let them compete with Open Source using legal measures.

However, lawmakers are becoming more and more clueful each passing day. Alchin's, Mundie's and Ballmer's "Big Lie" campaigns were laughed off, losing Microsoft a lot of credibility. Microsoft just doesn't know how to handle an opponent it can't underprice, buy, or sue.

2. MS charges what they feel the market will bear (granted, they have used good ole' american know-how to slant the market in their direction). Office is their bread and butter, is probably the most popular office suite out there, and is easy to learn in a business setting.

3. Why do you want to run XP? If you already have win98 or even better, win2k, you don't need XP plain and simple.

its also stupid that I have to pay to try out their beta xp also, maybe im wrong and dont have to, can anyone correct me? >>

Well, the price is hefty, no argument there, but there were so many good deals available when OfficeXP came out, I got a free digital camera, ZIP drive, CDRW, palm, etc, after rebate. Of course, I auctioned all of them and ended up getting 2 copies of OfficeXP for free in the end. I'm sure the same kind of deals will be around when WindowsXP comes out.

Incidently, WindowsXP should be following the same pricing as other versions of Windows. You should be able to get a full version for about $200, or upgrade for under $100.

They do ask that you pay $10 for the beta–kind of weird, but if you signed up for one of their "XP events" like many of us did, you get it free. Check out this page. (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp)

So, yes, the prices are hefty, but with all the partner stuff, you can actually make a profit and have the latest software if you play your cards right.

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It is so weird. I have not used Office programs for one week or so. I have installed a number of different parts of the software, but nothing I think she could possibly cause simply does not load. Its weird . they are fully loaded, and then they just close themselves off. I saw this problem with Frontpage before, when I had Office 2000 and upgrade to Office XP (not the version of Office XP that was upgraded to Frontpage). So basically, everything seemed to be Office XP Frontpage non-functional. This was the case in all the computers were installed on.

This is very frustrating, and I try to compound one problem I keep running with sound in a particular game to determine. Ive heard that updating the drivers for the Audigy will be fixed. Unfortunately, for some reason Creative Installer package says I do not have an Audigy. Ugh ugh ugh . Any ideas?

I can not even use Word a damn paper for writing class. Help! : (

You rock man.. that's the problem. I got the damn Office 2000 CD from a training I went to. That's weird.. they're talking about having me contact the reseller about the CD-Key. I guess I should email Microsoft and tell them the CD they gave me won't work with SR-1. You're right too.. everything was perfectly fine before I started to patch things. Grrr..

Thanks again!

It just.. keeps… crashing.

Piece of TRASH. I'm going to drop all MS Office programs I used to use and find an alternative that WORKS. I heard that there's a version of StarOffice for Windows going around. I'll look into that perhaps.

I'm sick of Office. Three different operating systems. All three on fresh installs and the programs ALL CRASH. There's no reason for it, and no forums I've gone to could offer me any kind of help. I even went so far as to email Microsoft about it and they suggested that it was a HARDWARE issue. Odd how everything works fine EXCEPT their Office software, and yet it's a HARDWARE problem. Go figure…

I hope someone here can shed some light on my problem and possibly offer up an answer. Somehow though, I seriously doubt that's going to happen. Such a shame to waste money on a suite of programs like this. What.. a… piece… of…. TRASH.

The O/S identifies the card as an Audigy and the drivers are loaded for it. I wish I could get my hands on the updated driver files so I could just do it manually. Unfortunately, the damn installer package doesn't appear to unpack the files until it finds whatever the hell it's looking for to identify that you actually have an Audigy.

I know that there was an issue with this and the KR7A-R which is the motherboard I have. Although the one I read up on where this was the case happened to be with XP. There was no list of this problem with Win2k… but I have it. =-/

I'll update my signature dealio so it shows what my hardware REALLY is. I also think that the Audigy is crappy for O/Cing.. or I've got a bad one or something. I can't even push my FSB with the Audigy in there over by 1 freaking mhz. I push it to 134 and it locks up in any games. I can get it up to 140 without a problem just running the operating system by itself. If I start to play MP3s though.. it'll lock up in a few. Counterstrike, Max Payne, Empire Earth, Civ III… the game will seize up (usually sound loop) when a sound is played. If I disable the sound, no problems at all. Not one lockup… maybe I should get a new Audigy eh? Any ideas anyone?

Does Windows correctly identify the Audigy in the device manager?

As for your sound card problem, I really have no clue. Try uninstalling all drivers and install the drivers – manually possibly?

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I felt the latest Office XP was still acceptable, but this appearance a bit too bloated to me.

Noone said it was, but look at MS preaching about how bad the UI consistency is hurting the usability of Linux when they don't even follow their own UI guidelines. You can't tell me that Office, WMP or Visual Studio are consistent with anything, even across revisions they redo the UI to be completely different.

the problem is that every application has it's own damn look and doesn't follow the look of the window manager. it hasn't gotten a whole lot better over time either

The Window Manager isn't the Widget set, GTK apps look like GTK apps no matter what the WM is written in. If you are picky about what you run and stick with one widget set you'll be fine.

linux zealots can go f off. i like linux and all, but the variations between the distros is killing any possibility of being a mainstream OS

So? What'll that get us other than AOL for Linux and a lot more calls about why Tiger Woods won't run?

ug, don't even get me started on lack of UI consistency in linux. the problem is that every application has it's own damn look and doesn't follow the look of the window manager. it hasn't gotten a whole lot better over time either

take for example firebird's scrollbar. doesn't look a damned thing like any other scrollbar in kde or gnome.

linux zealots can go f off. i like linux and all, but the variations between the distros is killing any possibility of being a mainstream OS

and…get a life

If you're so pissed about posts like these, then why do you read them?

I did find that to an extent, Office 2k3 follows XP's theme. For example, the bars and other areas are a lot more olive colored with the Olive theme, a lot bluer with XP default, and a lot more silvery with XP Silver. On classic: windows standard (which I usually use), it's more white colored, but the bloatsy bars and the shiny xp icons are still there.

I'm ok with the icons considering that even in Classic, XP has vibrant icons. The 3d-like bars though, remain regardless of xp theme.

At this point it looks like maybe M$ didn't make a way for us to change office appearance and that it may need a skinning prob/tweak.

if you dont like there products then DONT FRIGGIN BUY them!!! so sick of nitwits moaning and groaning over the Tyrannical MS company and the horrible injustices they perform….get STAR or OPEN OFFICE or Word Perfect

Some of us have a job that actually involves computers and don't have a choice in all the software we run. And quite frankly anyone is allowed to bitch here, that's part of the point of forums like this.

and…get a life

You took the time to make a post that contained nothing more than whining about someone else's whining and you think they need a life?

and…get a life

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Rain

NOW THE OTHER WAY:
MS releases AS2 at $45, this time, everyone buys it. they make $4500, but have registered users, and no piracy problem, since everyone went out and bought it. They decide that for their next release of AS3, they will offer a $5 upgrade for those users who bought AS2 legit.

SEE MY POINT?

Rain

Rain

Glp1

Rain

As a side note, my OfficeXP Pro was packaged in a jewel case.

~guy

Ah, yes, the SE version is $479 just like you said.

Microsoft has an extensive web site for Office, perhaps one of the easiest to find on the web. I myself would research my purchase prior to purchase.

IMHO, the packaging is about the lamest reason to rant about any software.

Rain

For crying out loud, your whining about getting into the package:P LOL, Why would you pay that for the upgrade? Pro upgrade Retail= $279 Didn't your "retail" package come with documentation explaining registration? MS Support is excellent BTW, getting the # via the phone will be painless for registered owners. Geez, why even upgrade if you're so put out?

Rain

Rain

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Thx

Yea, through Microsoft's Open Volume License Program. If your Dad's company is a non-profit, government, education, etc. institution, you might be able to get a discount.

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Also, Office XP works with win98 yet?

Anyways plextor replied to me and told me to send in an RMA request. Now who the hell wants to figure out how to fill this (http://www.plextor.com/english/support/support_rmareq.html) sucker out.

ROFL, no offense man, but you sound like some IT people I've run into: "If I can't fix a problem, I reformat… even if the problem still isn't fixed". If your CDRW wasn't working properly and Win2K was continually trying to detect it, this would cause a massive slow down. I had this problem when I flashed my CDrom with the wrong version of drivers (they all look alike!). Grats on your 500 points in 3dmark…

I "lost the faith" a month or so ago with W2K and put back W98… ick… I used to think that my W98 install was pretty stable, but I guess I was just used to it. When I moved back from W2K… the system instability was *very* noticible… the W98 install lasted half a day, then back to W2K.

I have to add my vote to those others that say that if your hardware is reasonably current (ie. <3 yrs old) and your drivers are right smack up to date, you shouldn't have problems running current games (there's the pick right there I guess) in W2K.

dont know about your incompatabilites tho.

just ee if office XP installs, you will know your answer.

booty

And does anybody know if office XP works on win98? And what kind of boot times does winXP have?

Originally when I first installed win2k it was running great for about 6 months. After last week when I installed max payne, suddenly it just started to slowly die on me. Suddenly I got tons of random lockups, everything was running much slower. I defragged and even reinstalled and stuff but nothing changed.

It might have something to do with the fact that my plextor 16/10 also died on me last week and it does not read any cds and gives me an I/O error when I try to access it (on win98 it says &quot;the device is not ready&quot;). I'm still trying to figure this one out.

On 3dmark2k1 it was actually a bigger then 500 change. I went from 3800 to 4500.

booty

Just curious guy: what graphics card do you have?? 500points difference in 3DMark (even though I disregard that software as much as possible) i s a quite a difference. Where you a victim of crappy ATI drivers??

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