Q: Some friends and I are thinking about starting a secondary data / telco side business. Were pretty much on the adherence to small businesses in the commercial office parks and is not easily accessible as they usually walls and drop ceilings. finihsed we just made our first project and each close to a major. Seems pretty easy money for a few nights a work.
Not blindly move into a venture I have ordered a book from Amazon, so I can be a bit more about the ins and outs of the data and telco wireing, frankly, learning, I would like to learn as much as I can and the opinion of others do when they have the experince area.
Looking for a few good forums, sugguested retailers and the general council of my forum mates. How much cost, etc. such thing.
TIA.
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Re:Thanks again to all for the info and advice. We have finally finished our first gig except for making sure that the phone company connects to our lines… I have another job, about 5 times larger, lined up for november….
Now, for the next question. Other than word of mouth, what should I do to get more work? Any advice…. I was thinking about canvasing the local business parks and dropping off a letter stating that we were workinging in the area, and a business card after hours.
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Re:guy, another suggestion. When I personally evaluate cabling guys (or cabling plants), one of the things I'm looking for is neatness. Professional cable guys are pretty religious abut a really neat and clean job. Everything's cut nearly to the exact length, terminations are in a regular pattern and neat and clean. When you see a good cable plant, you should think "I couldn't do that good a job myself." In contrast, I see a lot of installers do work where the back of the panels or up in the ceilings is just a huge rat's nest. I avoid those guys.
Also, label, label, label (and document). If the customer has to trace or tone anything themselves later, you haven't done your job right.
Always pad your bids a bit expecting for some call backs and some "while you're at it"s. Spidey's right: customers typically have minor changes they want done at the last minute and you'd much rather be remembed as the guy who just helped 'em out.
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Re:Originally posted by: guy
For large projects (like cabling up a new building), a one million dollar bond is not at all unusual (I think Spidey will back me up on that).
Doing cable for fun & hobby is one thing, but "business is business." Be prepared.
Good Luck
Scott
I can only agree. Especially "business is business"
But I will say this – offer a competitive service at a lower cost and you will succeed. You may be competing against union companies. Now as much as I don't like unions, they do some DAMN FINE WORK. I mean mind blowing, good job, thorough, DAMN NICE WORK. They know the code and follow it. They're very skilled in what they do, but they come at a premium.
You face the value proposition though…"if they undercut the other bidders by so much, what are they skimping on???"
OP – do quality work for slightly less than your competition and you'll be OK. And don't charge for changes to the SOW until you are established unless they cut into your profit. And even so if it eats into that, do it anyway to make the customer happy.
Good luck, and chare 150-175 per drop of quality work. 1000 buck cable tester isn't going to proivde quality work.
http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us…erview.htm?PID=50003&categorycode=CPTT (http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/DSP+CableAnalyzer+Series/Overview.htm?PID=50003&categorycode=CPTT)
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Re:There are several flavors of insurance:
One covers "accidents," like drilling into a water pipe (or gas pipe), or causing a Telco fiber cut while burying cable for your customer, which also covers loss of business to the client or claiment.
Another covers negligence and willful misconduct claims (whether you are or not doesn't matter, the client can claim it, and you have to defend it or settle it). Like if you were trenching cable and failed to have the location service ("Miss Dig" for example) come out to show you where the existing cable / gas pipe / power line was buried and your backhoe/trencher/direct bore damages it … *you* get to pay for the fix, and all loss of service … because you were negligent.
A bond / bonding guarantees that *you* have money set aside to cover the cost of repairing/replacing things you damage, this is separate from insurance. In some cases, it's like a bail bond … meaning that you pay ~10% in (cash, up-front), and are on the hook for the other 90% in the event the bonding company has to pay.
So, if you had a one million dollar bond, you'd pay $100,000.00 cash, up front, for the bond. The bonding company backs you for one million, but if you are found responsible for (random number for example) $250,000.00 of damage, the bond covers the immediate payment to the claiment, then you pay the bonding company back for (at least … sometimes there are other charges added for filing & legal) the outstanding $150,000.00 Failure to pay them back means they pretty much close your buisness, sell everything, and come after you for everything they can get (hence, incorporate or form an LLC).
For large projects (like cabling up a new building), a one million dollar bond is not at all unusual (I think Spidey will back me up on that).
Doing cable for fun & hobby is one thing, but "business is business." Be prepared.
Good Luck
Scott
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Re:Originally posted by: guy
while I am new to running datacom cabling, the two guys that I am working with have approx 5 years of experience apiece, they enen know fiberoptics. Does certification really matter at this point. Pulling cable is pulling cable, is it not?
You can crank on lampcord….you can't crank on a lot of fast ethernet to those same limits…fiber, tread carefully
Your other question above about licensing/bonding: You license is the pay to play part of it. The bonding is the insurance that when you are at the top of your game and then do six figures of runs with a certain cable batch that prematurely fails or the guy that passed his background check with flying colors decides to toke up one day and drive your 18' truck through the front of the building…
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Re:For a few runs I did a coupple years ago for a Federal Agency they required a printout of the certification results before they would pay. We just rented a Fluke Certification device that printed out the results on cash register style spools of paper. It only cost $45 for a day's use. That would not be a bad idea to do, until you had the cash saved up to get a GOOD one for yourself.
Be sure that what you are looking at actually certifies the cable, not just tests it.
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Re:Shoot for an RCDD certification …. kind of like CCIE for wire & cabling.
http://www.bicsi.org/Content/Index.aspx?File=rcddoverview.htm
Good Luck
Scott
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Re:Thanks everyone for the responses. I have learned a lot.
Looks as if liability insurance is not going to be that expensive. we will probably incorportate as well and get licensed in the state. Now as far as bonding goes, we'll see. Certification seems like a must as well, so I am looking into it.
I also have been looking at data certification equiptment as well, there are a few around 1k that will download its test results to excel. I think I am going to look into getting one as well.
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Re:Originally posted by: guy
while I am new to running datacom cabling, the two guys that I am working with have approx 5 years of experience apiece, they enen know fiberoptics. Does certification really matter at this point. Pulling cable is pulling cable, is it not?
Nope. Re-read Spidey's posts and take them to heart. I expect you will not and continue to sell out jobs without the proper education. Pulling cable is only pulling cable when it's your LAN, or your not charging for your work. That or your customer just don't care about QA.
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Re:guy, go look at Fluke Networks's product line. A few thousand dollars buys you the test equipment you need. Most small business customers I've seen don't require proof of testing, but you'd really be a fool not to test every run anyway and keep some sort of record of that. It will save you call-backs after the install, and if your customer tries to blame your cable job later for a network problem (it WILL happen), you need the test equipment to determine scientifically whether that claim is correct or not.
Also invest in good cable running tools. Labor Saving Devices makes some great toys.
Incorporate. Licensed, bonded, and insured. Or you'll regret it. In some jurisdictions even low-voltage cable may require a license such as an electrician's license. Also, in some jurisdictions, you may be required to have an electrical inspector sign off on the completed job, and/or the fire inspector.
Small business runs on word-of-mouth and you do not want unhappy customers.
Re:Originally posted by: guy
So you demand a certified printout for every data run?
I was talking to my buddies about this and they stated that most installers do not even have the equiptment to print out the cert as it costs an ass load
Yes. I demand a binder with category certification tests run on each and every run…these results are part of the statement of work. If you can't meet that, you don't get the job. Link and channel tests, certified, guaranteed and backed with a manufacturer warranty. This is not the exception, this is the norm.
The most important part of a network is the cabling.
You're buddies aren't professional installers. Sorry to be so blunt.
Re:Originally posted by: guy
Originally posted by: guy
Pulling cable is pulling cable, is it not?
And that's exactly why I made my post.
Let's put it this way. I've demanded guys come back in and replace the entire plant because they screwed up and couldn't certify it.
I'm not putting MY job on the line for shotty work.
So you demand a certified printout for every data run?
I was talking to my buddies about this and they stated that most installers do not even have the equiptment to print out the cert as it costs an ass load
Re:Originally posted by: guy
Pulling cable is pulling cable, is it not?
And that's exactly why I made my post.
Let's put it this way. I've demanded guys come back in and replace the entire plant because they screwed up and couldn't certify it.
I'm not putting MY job on the line for shotty work.
Re:while I am new to running datacom cabling, the two guys that I am working with have approx 5 years of experience apiece, they enen know fiberoptics. Does certification really matter at this point. Pulling cable is pulling cable, is it not?
Re:Make sure you take the apppropriate classes and are certfified for installing various manufacturers cable plants.
And make sure you get a cable certifier so you can provide the customer with the results for each run, AND support the manufacturers warranty. Normally 10-15 years.
Re:so insurance and licensing and bonding are seperate things?
Re:Find a good comercial insurance agent, and get licensed/bonded
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